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Oxygen Sensor Information Written by Rick Kirchoff (rick@posms.cactus.org). Edited to html by Kyle Hamar >From Terrill_Yuhas@smtpsc1.sc.pima.gov Fri Nov 4 12:42:39 1994
In response to several requests for more information about Oxygen (O2) sensors, perhaps the following information will help.
Comment:
These procedures are only for self powered conventional sensors. Some very new cars are using a different style sensor that is powered. *Many* Oxygen sensors are replaced that are good to excellent. *Many* people don't know how to test them. They routinely last 50,000 or more miles, and if the engine is in good shape, can last the life of the car.
What does the O2 sensor do?
It is the primary measurement device for the fuel control computer in your car to know if the engine is too rich or too lean. The O2 sensor is active anytime it is hot enough, but the computer only uses this information in the closed loop mode. Closed loop is the operating mode where all engine control sensors including the Oxygen sensor are used to get best fuel economy, lowest emissions, and good power.
Should the O2 sensor be replaced when the sensor light comes on in your car?
Probably not, but you should test it to make sure it is alive and well. This assumes that the light you see is simply an emissions service reminder light and not a failure light. A reminder light is triggered by a mileage event (20-40,000 miles usually) or something like 2000 key start cycles. EGR dash lights usually fall into the reminder category. Consult your owners manual, auto repair manual, dealer, or repair shop for help on what your light means.
How do I know if my O2 sensor may be bad?
If your car has lost several miles per gallon of fuel economy and the usual tune up steps do not improve it. This *is not* a pointer to O2 failure, it just brings up the possibility. Vacuum leaks and ignition problems are common fuel economy destroyers. As mentioned by others, the on board computer may also set one of several failure "codes". If the computer has issued a code pertaining to the O2 sensor, the sensor and it's wiring should be tested. Usually when the sensor is bad, the engine will show some loss of power, and will not seem to respond quickly.
What will damage my O2 sensor?
Home or professional auto repairs that have used silicone gasket sealer that is not specifically labeled "Oxygen sensor safe", "Sensor safe", or something similar, if used in an area that is connected to the crankcase. This includes valve covers, oil pan, or nearly any other gasket or seal that controls engine oil. Leaded fuel will ruin the O2 sensor in a short time. If a car is running rich over a long period, the sensor may become plugged up or even destroyed. Just shorting out the sensor output wire will not usually hurt the sensor. This simply grounds the output voltage to zero. Once the wiring is repaired, the circuit operates normally. Undercoating, antifreeze or oil on the *outside* surface of the sensor can kill it. See how does an Oxygen sensor work.
Will testing the O2 sensor hurt it?
Almost always, the answer is no. You must be careful to not *apply* voltage to the sensor, but measuring it's output voltage is not harmful. As noted by other posters, a cheap voltmeter will not be accurate, but will cause no damage. This is *not* true if you try to measure the resistance of the sensor. Resistance measurements send voltage into a circuit and check the amount returning.
How does an O2 sensor work?
An Oxygen sensor is a chemical generator. It is constantly making a comparison between the Oxygen inside the exhaust manifold and air outside the engine. If this comparison shows little or no Oxygen in the exhaust manifold, a voltage is generated. The output of the sensor is usually between 0 and 1.1 volts. All spark combustion engines need the proper air fuel ratio to operate correctly. For gasoline this is 14.7 parts of air to one part of fuel. When the engine has more fuel than needed, all available Oxygen is consumed in the cylinder and gasses leaving through the exhaust contain almost no Oxygen. This sends out a voltage greater than 0.45 volts. If the engine is running lean, all fuel is burned, and the extra Oxygen leaves the cylinder and flows into the exhaust. In this case, the sensor voltage goes lower than 0.45 volts. Usually the output range seen seen is 0.2 to 0.7 volts.
The sensor does not begin to generate it's full output until it reaches about 600 degrees F. Prior to this time the sensor is not conductive. It is as if the circuit between the sensor and computer is not complete. The mid point is about 0.45 volts. This is neither rich nor lean. A fully warm O2 sensor *will not spend any time at 0.45 volts*. In many cars, the computer sends out a bias voltage of 0.45 through the O2 sensor wire. If the sensor is not warm, or if the circuit is not complete, the computer picks up a steady 0.45 volts. Since the computer knows this is an "illegal" value, it judges the sensor to not be ready. It remains in open loop operation, and uses all sensors except the O2 to determine fuel delivery. Any time an engine is operated in open loop, it runs somewhat rich and makes more exhaust emissions. This translates into lost power, poor fuel economy and air pollution.
The O2 sensor is constantly in a state of transition between high and low voltage. Manfucturers call this crossing of the 0.45 volt mark O2 cross counts. The higher the number of O2 cross counts, the better the sensor and other parts of the computer control system are working. It is important to remember that the O2 sensor is comparing the amount of Oxygen inside and outside the engine. If the outside of the sensor should become blocked, or coated with oil, sound insulation, undercoating or antifreeze, (among other things), this comparison is not possible.
How can I test my O2 sensor?
They can be tested both in the car and out. If you have a high impedence volt meter, the procedure is fairly simple. It will help you to have some background on the way the sensor does it's job. Read how does an O2 sensor work first.
Testing O2 sensors that are installed
The engine must first be fully warm. If you have a defective thermostat, this test may not be possible due to a minimum temperature required for closed loop operation. Attach the positive lead of a high impedence DC voltmeter to the Oxygen sensor output wire. This wire should remain attached to the computer. You will have to back probe the connection or use a jumper wire to get access. The negative lead should be attached to a good clean ground on the engine block or accessory bracket. Cheap voltmeters will not give accurate results because they load down the circuit and absorb the voltage that they are attempting to measure. A acceptable value is 1,000,000 ohms/volt or more on the DC voltage. Most (if not all) digital voltmeters meet this need. Few (if any) non-powered analog (needle style) voltmeters do. Check the specs for your meter to find out. Set your meter to look for 1 volt DC. Many late model cars use a heated O2 sensor. These have either two or three wires instead of one. Heated sensors will have 12 volts on one lead, ground on the other, and the sensor signal on the third. If you have two or three wires, use a 15 or higher volt scale on the meter until you know which is the sensor output wire.
When you turn the key on, do not start the engine. You should see a change in voltage on the meter in most late model cars. If not, check your connections. Next, check your leads to make sure you won't wrap up any wires in the belts, etc. then start the engine. You should run the engine above 2000 rpm for two minutes to warm the O2 sensor and try to get into closed loop. Closed loop operation is indicated by the sensor showing several cross counts per second. It may help to rev the engine between idle and about 3000 rpm several times. The computer recognizes the sensor as hot and active once there are several cross counts.
You are looking for voltage to go above and below 0.45 volts. If you see less than 0.2 and more than 0.7 volts and the value changes rapidly, you are through, your sensor is good. If not, is it steady high (> 0.45) near 0.45 or steady low (< 0.45). If the voltage is near the middle, you may not be hot yet. Run the engine above 2000 rpm again. If the reading is steady low, add richness by partially closing the choke or adding some propane through the air intake. Be very careful if you work with any extra gasoline, you can easily be burned or have an explosion. If the voltage now rises above 0.7 to 0.9, and you can change it at will by changing the extra fuel, the O2 sensor is usually good.
If the voltage is steady high, create a vacuum leak. Try pulling the PCV valve out of it's hose and letting air enter. You can also use the power brake vacuum supply hose. If this drives the voltage to 0.2 to 0.3 or less and you can control it at will by opening and closing the vacuum leak, the sensor is usually good.
If you are not able to make a change either way, stop the engine, unhook the sensor wire from the computer harness, and reattach your voltmeter to the sensor output wire. Repeat the rich and lean steps. If you can't get the sensor voltage to change, and you have a good sensor and ground connection, try heating it once more. Repeat the rich and lean steps. If still no voltage or fixed voltage, you have a bad sensor.
If you are not getting a voltage and the car has been running rich lately, the sensor may be carbon fouled. It is sometimes possible to clean a sensor in the car. Do this by unplugging the sensor harness, warming up the engine, and creating a lean condition at about 2000 rpm for 1 or 2 minutes. Create a big enough vacuum leak so that the engine begins to slow down. The extra heat will clean it off if possible. If not, it was dead anyway, no loss. In either case, fix the cause of the rich mixture and retest. If you don't, the new sensor will fail.
Testing O2 sensors on the workbench.
Use a high impedence DC voltmeter as above. Clamp the sensor in a vice, or use a plier or vice-grip to hold it. Clamp your negative voltmeter lead to the case, and the positive to the output wire. Use a propane torch set to high and the inner blue flame tip to heat the fluted or perforated area of the sensor. You should see a DC voltage of at least 0.6 within 20 seconds. If not, most likely cause is open circuit internally or lead fouling. If OK so far, remove from flame. You should see a drop to under 0.1 volt within 4 seconds. If not likely silicone fouled. If still OK, heat for two full minutes and watch for drops in voltage. Sometimes, the internal connections will open up under heat. This is the same a loose wire and is a failure. If the sensor is OK at this point, and will switch from high to low quickly as you move the flame, the sensor is good. Bear in mind that good or bad is relative, with port fuel injection needing faster information than carbureted systems.
ANY O2 sensor that will generate 0.9 volts or more when heated, show 0.1 volts or less within one second of flame removal, AND pass the two minute heat test is good regardless of age. When replacing a sensor, don't miss the opportunity to use the test above on the replacement. This will calibrate your evaluation skills and save you money in the future. There is almost always *no* benefit in replacing an oxygen sensor that will pass the test in the first line of this paragraph.
-- Rick Kirchhof Austin, Texas | Experience is what you Domain: rick@posms.cactus.org | get when you don't Bang path: ...!cs.utexas.edu!peyote!posms!rick | get what you want.
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>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar 30 11:11:25 1993 Subject: Edelbrock air/fuel ratio monitor From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) To: hotrod@dixie.com X-Sequence: 4717 X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
Well....
I just bought the Edelbrock air/fuel ratio monitor and hears what I discovered. The sensor is a Bosch PN E971-9F472-AA (a lot of numbers stamped on it, I think this ones the Bosch part number). I believe this to be a standard three wire conventual O2 sensor though admittedly I do not have the manufacture's literature. The "little black box" is nothing more than little and black. Inside there is a surge suppresser, a filter capacitor, one needed and one redundant resistor to control the LEDs brightness, and a LM3914 Dot/Bar Display Driver. The design is straight out of the application books with no creativity. Did I mention the lack of input signal conditioning/filtering to remove engine/ ignition noise? Given the speed of the LM3914's comparators, this is a problem and certainly a problem in my implementation.
The electronics clearly runs the sensor in the voltage mode drawing only a 25nA biasing current for the LM3914's internal buffer. The sensor voltage and air/fuel ratio have the following corresponds:
volts air/fuel Lambda (open circuit) ===================================== .250 15.0:1 1.02 .375 14.5:1 0.99 .500 14.0:1 0.95 .625 13.5:1 0.92 .750 13.0:1 0.88 .875 12.5:1 0.85 1.000 12.0:1 0.82
>From what I have read in the SAE Transaction pertaining to O2 sensors, this relationship is "bull shit". :( I can not believe this mode of operation would let the sensor go as low as .8 lambda let alone have this type of linearity.
I would have at least expected Edelbrock to use a current mode of operation.
Any comments?
My next step is to change Edelbrocks "little black box" into a current mode of operation and call NGK in hopes of finding an affordable UEGO.
John S. Gwynne jsg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
---------- Posted by: John S Gwynne
>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 1 12:39:23 1993 Subject: Re: Edelbrock air/fuel ration monitor From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) To: hotrod@dixie.com X-Sequence: 4777 X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
Bob Valentine writes:
> From the tone, I can tell that the design is not a good one. >However, I'd like to get away from the DVM hanging under my dash.... >Would using a 3914 (I used those in grade school for really cool audio >power meters...) suffice with a 1 wire O2 sensor?
>From what I've seen so far the electronic portion needs some improvements. The input signal will have to be conditioned/filtered to gain a steady display. The signal line from the sensor has no loading at all to reduce ignition noise. In addition, I do not like the voltage generation mode of operation. From some of the generic voltage-vs-current curves (as a function of lambda), in the SAE transactions, I intend to find a load line that will maximize the sensor's dynamic range and hope it works well for this sensor too. In the circuit to do this, I will include some filtering. The use of the LM3914 is a good choice, but I don't see it doing the job alone for a 1 wire or 3 wire sensor.
> [chart showing voltage, air/fuel, lambda deleted] > So then, is this chart valid?
I don't think so. IMHO I think Edelbrock wanted a product to match MSD's O2 sensor, which has only one tri-color LED to indicate the mixture condition. Their gimmick was to add more LED's and who would know if these LED's had any real meaning? They almost flash in a believable fashion.
> I don't have the reference here anymore, but I belive a LM3915 >works on current, rather than voltage. Nice thing about this series >is that you can chain several of them together to get a rather precise >display. (ie., a 20 segment display... hell, just carpet the dash with >those plug in segments! 8^>)
The LM3914 has a linear display and the LM3915 is logarithmic. Both are a function of input voltage, and both will let you carpet the dash :) .
> If you can find a UEGO, let me know. Last I heard they were >made of "Unobtanium", and way out of bounds on price.
The data sheet I have from HORIBA on their UEGO sensor for the MEXA-110 says it's made of zirconia and ceramic :) . But at a price of $900, it is unobtainable. If I can find the time, I'm still going to look for an affordable one.
[I mentioned awhile back the MOTES A/F analyzer that competes with the MEXA but costs less than Horiba's sensor. They told me they were using, I believe, the Bosch UEGO sensor that is much cheapter than the one Horiba uses. Someone else noted that one model of Honda lean burn engine uses a UEGO. Might want to check the archives for that info. They're at ece.rutgers.edu JGD]
John S. Gwynne jgwynne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
---------- Posted by: John S Gwynne
>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jul 26 12:46:06 1993 Subject: Re: More about Holleys From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) To: hotrod@dixie.com X-Sequence: 5884 X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
> O2 Sensor setup, etc <
I drilled a hole in the cast iron exhaust manifold right before the outlet flange, and reamed it out until an 18mm anti-fouling spark plug adaptor was a hammer fit. I ground down the adaptor until its inner end was flush with the interior wall of the manifold, and then welded it in place.
The O2 sensor I used was a freebie 1-wire type. A 3-wire is better for reasons I'll go into in a bit, but costs more. I picked up ground locally using a valve cover bolt through a loop soldered in the end of the ground wire, and connected the O2 sensor to its mate, solder and shrink-wrap. I used some automotive "trailer wire" (the 4-conductor ribbon used for hooking up auxiliary lights etc.) which seems to be taking the heat and grease reasonably well. The reason for taking a local (engine block) ground is to minimize any error induced by body/block return currents and any voltage offset that might develop from loads like A/C, lights if you used the dash as ground.
I am using a spare analog VOM to read O2 volts; it seems to be working well enough, even though I've been told that the O2 sensor needs a very high load impedance. This meter has about 100Kohms (50K/volt, 2.5V scale) and I think it's about on the edge of affecting the sensor output accuracy; if I switch to the next lower scale I get a slightly lower value reading indicating Zload sensitivity to me.
The reading ranges from 0 to 1V (approx), with 0 indicating lean and 1V indicating rich. 0.5 is supposed to be stoichemetric. When warm I seem to be pegged rich, or close to it, except for a "hole" during throttle transitions.
The one-wire sensor depends on exhaust heat to activate it; the element has to be pretty hot to develop any voltage and low temperatures result in a reduction or absence of output. I find that there's not enough heat at idle to keep the sensor fired up. If I idle for more than a few seconds the output voltage starts to decay. The other thing is that it takes a while to start reading. For a tailpipe test rig I made, a 3-wire was a necessity since by that point there's not enough heat ever.
For a permanent installation I think the best solution would be to use a small panel meter with a single-supply op amp as a unity gain buffer and a calibration resistor to get 1V full scale. A shunt resistor from amplifier output to ground might help the amp in the low end. I tried cobbling up a bar graph display using an old LM3914 I had in the parts- is-parts tin but it seems to have developed an attitude. For some reason Radio Shack has stopped selling these although they still sell the bar graph displays.
---------- Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 21:12:16 1993 Subject: 02 sensor help! From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) To: hotrod@dixie.com X-Sequence: 6040 X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
> O2 Sensor setup, etc <
.....
>The O2 sensor I used was a freebie 1-wire type. A 3-wire is better for reasons I'll go into in a bit, but costs more.
We are interested in putting an 02 sensor in a Datsun 240Z SCCA ITS class road race car. The Datsun has a six into two header (where three cylinders being fed by one carburetor) into a dual exhaust system. We are interested in monitoring the air / fuel ratio of each carb (3 cylinders) while the car is at speed to determine efficiency at high RPM.
We understand K & N makes an air/fuel monitor that retails for $139.00. Can we inexpensively duplicate this device or do you have a better, less expensive alternative.
Also, does the 02 sensor develop its own voltage or is it a variable resistance device? Any explanation (reference material, etc.) on how this operates would be greatly appreciated.
Roger Hensley Patriot Motorsports 1099 N. 16th St. Otsego, Mi 49078
[Cyberdyne makes an in-dash A/F indicator that lists for $29 in Summit's catalog. Don't pay a dime more. Many of these things are labeled with wide range A/F ratios. Since the standard O2 sensor covers a narrow range around stoich, this labeling is fraudulent. As long as standard production O2 sensors are used (UEGOs sensors by themselves cost several hundred bux), all the displays must work the same. If you want an analog readout, a simple analog meter with an op-amp buffer does the trick. the voltage range from the sensor is 0-1 volt at high impedance so gain isn't necessary; only buffering.
For references, see the archives plus SAE's "Sensors and Actuators" publication from the last few years. More info than you can stand. Remember though, lead-free gas only. JGD] ---------- Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 9 19:12:41 1993 Subject: Air / Fuel Guage results & Thanks. From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) To: hotrod@dixie.com X-Sequence: 6309 X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
Just a word to say thanks to all those people that helped us out on our Air/Fuel meter question I posted a few weeks ago. We bought a couple of Cyberdyne Air/Fuel Gauges from SUMMIT for $30.99 and installed a BOSCH O2 sensors at each collector on my friends (Andy) Datsun 240Z SCCA ITS race car.
During warm ups at Grattan raceway on 04 September both gauges read two bars too rich (what ever two bars mean). The car was brought in and the carbs leaned out. Back on the track the gauges read center or stoch. and Andy's times improved down the straight and throughout the course. Saturday Andy qualified second in class behind a 280Z. On Sunday the gauges were still reading stoch and Andy won the South Bend regional race being chased by the 280Z. On Monday he qualified for the Western Michigan regional races 3rd overall and 1st in class in the rain. The Cyberdynes were now reading two bars too lean; however, we did not readjust the carbs because the race was scheduled to be run later in the day and the forcast was for clear skies. I figure the cooler temps were making the air a little denser thus the reason for the lean condition. The guess was correct. During the race the skies were clear and temp was warming up to what it had been Saturday and Sunday. Andy won the Monday race again being chased by the 280Z.
We learned a lot using the Cyberdynes. They aren't perfect but do give an adequate indication of what is going on. By the way we used 75% HI OCTANE unleaded fuel and 25% leaded Racing Fuel. It didn't seem to bother the O2 sensors. Anyway Thanks a Bunch!
Roger Hensley Patriot Motorsports
[The guys down at Ga Tech F-SAE team have been using lambda sensors with leaded fuel for quite some time. They were fortunate to have had GM donate a whole box full of sensors to the effort. They tell me the sensor will last for a few hours of dyno running. The first indication of poisoning is sluggish response. Sounds like yours should be good for a couple of events. JGD]
---------- Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 11 23:39:00 1993 Subject: Re: custom O2 gague (& others) From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) To: hotrod@dixie.com X-Sequence: 6678 X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
--------
In message , you write:
| | these questions deal with the air/fuel mix sensor (like cyberdyne's | in the summit catalog): | - where does the sensor need to be located, ie real close to the | engine (reporting on just one cylinder (and hoping it is | 'typical')), or can it be put down on the collector, so it would | report on how the cylinders (as a whole) are doing? | - how does the placement affect the accuracy/linearity (or what else?)
Sensor location is important for the non-heated EGO sensor. Too close to the engine and it will become too hot and shorten the life expectancy. Too far way and the sensor may not stay warm enough to work at idle. Location is not a problem for the thick film heated sensors (TFHEGO), and placement in the collector is fine.
| - does the sensor come with a full spec sheet (ie what the voltage or | resistance is for different a/f ratios, or can one be obtained? | | which leads me to the thought that brought on the questions: i want | to make a small 'gage' for a/f ratios (i don't like the look of the | cyberdyne unit), with 5 lights or led's on it: | 1) red -> way too lean | 2) yellow -> fuel-economy cruise (slightly lean) | 3) green -> stoich | 4) yellow -> acceleration (slightly rich) | 5) red -> way too rich |
As far as I know (which may not be much :) ), all of these gauges for under $150 that claim to cover such a wide A/F range (specifically on the rich side) ARE bullshit... I bought the Edelbrock air/fuel monitor (see post end of March/93 in the archives -- ece.rutgers.edu) and traced out the circuit. It uses a TFHEGO in the voltage generation mode which can really only indicate 2-states (rich/lean). Needless to say that I was not happy and you should not waste your money on that one.... Before you buy one of these, run down to that auto parts store and get a generic 3-wire sensor.
To build a wide-range Air/Fuel meter, you need something like a UEGO sensor (again see the archives) that would use a oxygen cramming method or oxygen bias method (see SAE journals). This can cover the range .6
>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jul 5 13:15:15 1994 Subject: Honda LAF sensor From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) To: hotrod@dixie.com X-Sequence: 8868 X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dixie.com X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to jgd@dixie.com
The wide-range O2 sensor used in some of the Hondas is called an LAF sensor in England, UEGO over here. There's a chart in the October 1991 Car Design & Technology which shows the response curves of a conventional Lambda O2 sensor and the Honda LAF sensor
The LAF's response isn't linear, as depicted on the chart. It starts at about -5v at 10:1 A/F, moving up sharply to about -1v at stoich, then progressing slowly up to maybe +2v at 25:1.
---------- Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>From KEN_MOSHER@gmgate.IMD.Sterling.COM Tue Apr 20 15:21:53 1993 Date: 20 Apr 1993 15:18:26 U Subject: Injectors From: "KEN MOSHER"
SUBJECT: Injectors I ran across the following information about injectors and thought it may be of general interest:
Manufacturer Part # Flow @ 45 psi ================================================ Lucas 5208006 15.8 lbs/hr Lucas 5207011 23.9 lbs/hr Bosch (Stock GN) 0-280-150-218 29.8 lbs/hr Bosch (Supercoupe) 0-280-150-756 32.0 lbs/hr Bosch (Porsche) 0-280-150-213 33.0 lbs/hr Bosch 0-280-150-911 33.0 lbs/hr Lucas 5207009 33.2 lbs/hr Lucas 5207008 40.1 lbs/hr Bosch 0-280-150-803 40.0 lbs/hr Lucas 5107010 52.0 lbs/hr AC Rochester MSD 2014 72.0 lbs/hr Bendix (red) GM25500139 82.0 lbs/hr AC Rochester MSD 2015 96.0 lbs/hr Bendix (white) GM (alcohol) 180.0 lbs/hr
This data was gathered from ATR's literature enclosed in their 7th injector kit. Also, they note that the rated flow is NOT at rail pressure. The value at 45 psi is the differential pressure across the injector. In other words, if the fuel pressure is 65 psi @ WOT and the boost is set at 20 psi, the differential pressure is 45 psi.
They also included an A/F ratio graph that confirmed what I saw on the chassis dyno with my car ... namely that under boost the car should hover around 12.5:1 for best HP and detonation resistance. A crude ASCII rendering of the graph is below: ___ | ! ******* ! ! ! ! | ** ****** ! ! ! | * ! ! *****! ! ! BHP| * ! ! ** ! ! | * ! ! ! ** ! ! |* ! ! ! ** ! ! ___| ! ! ! *! ! | RICH ! CORRECT ! LEAN ! LIGHT !* SEVERE! | ! A/F ! ! KNOCK ! *KNOCK ! | ! ! ! ! * ! | ! ! ! ! * ! | ! ! ! ! * ! | ! ! ! ! * ! | ! ! ! ! * ! ___|_________|____________|_______|_______|________| | | | | | | 11.0 12.0 13.0 13.5 14.0 14.7 Air/Fuel Ratio
-- Ken Mosher -- Buick Grand National: More *POWER*! More *BOOST*! Urrrrr! Urrrrr!
>From ijames@codon.nih.gov Fri Nov 11 01:36:58 1994
Almost forgot. On the Grand Nationals the usual recommendation is to tune for an O2 volts of 0.76-0.78 V at wide-open throttle. Over .8 is too rich and less than .74 is just starting to knock (according to the knock sensor, anyway). I know that there is some variation from car to car, but I don't know how large it is. Ken Mosher has the most experience with this, and he has gone through at least 6 O2 sensors in several seasons of racing with leaded race gas and he has always recommended .76-.78 V, so the variation can't be greater than .02-.04 V from sensor to sensor. If you mount the sensor in the header collectors on a V8 I would strongly recommend a heated (3-wire) sensor so it doesn't cool off at idle. Good luck.
Regards,
Carl Ijames ijames@codon.nih.gov
From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) Subject: Re: Determining AFR from O2 Voltage readout
A non-heated sensor will behave as described if driving a low impedance load. This is due to the low exhaust temperature at idle, which reduces the current available from the cell. There will be an error induced, which is less into a higher impedance DVM than a resistive input such as a VOM (I have used both and observed this directly). The bargraph indicator may have an input resistance low enough to make this noticeable. On my van, I could see the sensor output voltage indication drift downward at about 100mV/sec after dropping onto idle. Eventually it would hit the floor, just "go out". Revving it for a few seconds would light it back up, and cruise was enough to keep it hot. With a very high input impedance meter, the indication remains steady even at idle.
You can substitute a heated sensor to get around the problem of inadequate exhaust temperature; three wire Bosch sensors can be gotten cheap at the AutoZone or whatever, if the future high school graduate behind the counter can be made to understand the concept of reading a parts list. I used a heated generic sensor to make a slip-on tailpipe sniffer.
You could also try using header wrap to maintain exhaust temperature up to the point where the sensor is located.
From:
Steve, I saw your post on rec.autos..... and thought I'd lend you my ?.02. Somone on the Corvete mialing list had a similar type of question, so I thought I'd just copy the note over to you too. If you have any questions, EMAIL me. For some reason I can't post to rec.autos.
Standard O2 sensors basically measure rich or lean operation. Their response is very nonlinear and can not be used to measure precise A/F. In computer controlled cars, the computer operates on a limit cycle, switching between rich and lean in order to average out to a particular A/F (usually stoich.). Sensors to measure actual A/F and not just rich/lean do exist, they are called Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensors (UEGO) or Linear EGO sensors. Essentially a UEGO sensor is two EGO sensors physically linked. One half of the sensor is exposed to exhaust gas, the other to O2. To make a long, complex story short, just as O2 causes a potential difference across the walls of the O2 sensor, pumping current into the O2 sensor can cause O2 ions to flow through the sensor. By measuring how much current must be pumped into the sensor in order to maintain a constant voltage across the O2 detecting cell (450 mV), the A/F can be determined. These devices are common place in dyno/engine calibration labs (at least here at Motorola and at Ford). The interface circuit for the sensor is extremely complex, as the sensor must be maintained in a closed loop and the currents measured are very small (into the tens of uA's). Besides having to control the O2 detecting and pumping cells, the heater must also be controlled and maintained at 10V RMS, battery voltage will burn it out. However, battery voltage (actually 12V RMS)is used to quickly warm up the sensor, after which the heater voltage is reduced. Thus, another circuit is used to detect when the sensor is warm. If current is pumped into a cold sensor, it will "blacken" and be destroyed. Operating temperature of the sensor is determined by measuring its electrical impedance.
I worked on such a circuit for Ford a few years back with the intention of putting it into production vehicles. It turned out that it was not cost effective for the benefits (at least that was their reason for killing the project). Instrumentation sensors like this exist, along with their digital readout, but they cost about ?8K! NTK (a division of NDK Spark Plug) is a very popular one.
I think that it would be possible to make a crude A/F meter using a standard ZrO2 EGO sensor and measuring the time that is spent lean (< 450mV) vs. rich (> 450mV). Note that nearly all (if not all) EGO sensors are actually HEGO sensors, H for heated. With these standard O2 sensors, battery to the heating element is sufficient.
Hi Steve. You asked:
" If an AFR sensor is basically two EGO sensors (one on the inside of the exhaust manifold, and one on the outside), and the two compare readings, I don't see why it would be so hard (so expensive) to make a device to do this. Probably the circuitry in determining the AFR from the comparison of inside/outside voltages I guess."
They are not two separate sensors. As a simplification, you can think of them as two separate sensors, but they are physically linked so that the O2 ions can flow from one side to the other. The O2 reference is created by applying a very small bias current to the sensor. This creates an O2 reference in part of the cell. It is not exposed to outside air, however.
I will keep an eye peeled for your summary post.
(here it is Mark ;-)
Mark Stavropoulos Motorola AIEG Northbrook, IL g10137@email.mot.com
>From sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sat Nov 12 20:49:30 EST 1994
In article <1ad.2720.1765@uchoice.com>, John Avery wrote:
>The November 1994 issue of SEMA News (Specialty Equipment Marketing >Association) shows the folowing "tuning aid" as they call it: >Accell...introduction of a new air/fuel ratio meter for all automotive >and light-truck applications. The new product is a tremendous tuning aid >for enthusiasts with both carbureted and fuel-injected engines. The >meter allows the driver to the monitor the air/fuel ratio during actual >operating conditions and is driven by a fast response oxygen sensor that >is bolted into the exhaust system. Close calibration of fuel curves >becomes quite easy, allowing precise fuel metering at all engine >speeds." The address is: >Accel >8700 Brookpark Rd. >Cleveland, OH 44129 >(216) 398-8300 >I have nothing to do with this company. I just thought it was relevant >to this thread. Hope it helps somebody.
It definitely is. Before I started this thread, I knew very little about O2 sensors, and was hoping that I could use one to determine exact AFR in my engine. Since then, I have received much information from everyone (thanks everyone!) and have learned quite a bit about O2 sensors. Still would like to know more though.
I'm going to repost with all the info I have received in a few days, maybe somebody with some more disk space would like to keep all the info as FAQ material?
Anyways, from the descriptions of how O2 sensors work, and operate in a closed loop system, it appears obvious to me know that all a regular O2 sensor can do is sense rich or lean conditions with reference to the stoich mixture of 14.7:1 In fact, that is all it NEEDS to do to keep a closed loop system working well, since in closed loop, the computer wants the mixture to stay as close to stoich as possible (the rich and lean voltage indications of the O2 sensor just keep bouncing signals back to the computer, which in turn keep the mixture very close to 14.7:1)
>From the many descriptions, and opinions I have received, there is NO steady relationship (linear, cubic, quadratic, etc.) between the O2 sensor voltage and the AFR. Therefor, from many others conclusions, I have come to the conclusion that no products which offer an AFR from a regular O2 sensor can even be the least bit accurate in determining a numerical AFR.
On the other hand, a system like MSD's which only indicates rich/lean is plenty accurate, because that information CAN be obtained from the O2 sensor. Whether it is worth $150 is up to the owner, seeing as how the same readings can be obtained by a regular O2 sensor and a good voltmeter.
According to the information I have received, only a UEGO (Universal exhaust gas oxygen) sensor can determine accurate AFR readings. I won't go into how one of these gems works right now, it will be in the repost. Also, according to the information I have received, these sensors cost a LOT of money, and the interface circuitry is extremely complex and expensive.
So, that's pretty much where it is left with me, any product which works off of a regular O2 sensor and claims to measure AFR is a scam. And the products which actually can measure AFR cost a pretty penny.
This is NOT to say that the regular O2 sensor can't be used for tuning. Because it can be very helpful for tuning for emissions, or returning an engine to a previous mixture setting (which you had recorded in O2 sensor volts).
So in conclusion, I would like to know how Accel's unit operates. Does it operate off of a regular O2 sensor, or a UEGO sensor? (rhetorical question - unless someone has the answer)
Steve
From: pi@c1ilep.delcoelect.com (Larry Piekarski) Subject: Re: New Question (was Re: Determining AFR...)
> Second Question: > > If the above is true, how would I go about wiring up one of these bar graphs > from radio shack, as to not short anything out, or ruin any of my current > wiring? (i.e. what resistors, etc. would I need for this readout) > I'm not much of a circuit builder -but am trying to learn.
First, the O2 sensor is extremely high impedience, 22 MOhm. If you are building a readout device, make sure you start with a very high impedience voltage follower. Second, most voltmeters and scopes have only 1 MOhm inputs, so be cautious of the readings you get.
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